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New World Record for Longest Sniper Kill


Guest LCpl.StayDown64=US=

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Guest Jusarious

That is 2.2 miles for those who are unable to measure in proper useful units. There is a major debate in the GWN about if we should celebrate this or condemn it. On one hand it is a lucky shot, on the other hand the soldier was not under duress nor was the target aware of the snipers presence.

 

Keeping in mind, we are no longer at war in Afghanistan.

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Guest RET.1SG.Draven=US=

And also, this was in Iraq, not the Stan. And should certainly be celebrated. Another terrorist has been killed. It's either them or us. And since they made the choice to kill innocent people based on their religious beliefs (which are extreme beyond extreme), I will sleep sounder knowing one less are on this earth.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using =US= Unknown Soldiers mobile app

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Guest Jusarious

It is an achievement that would have been just as important if the sniper hit a paper target down a shooting range.

 

On a side note, a POA about sniping moving targets at extreme ranges would be fun. Duck hunt style.

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Guest CPT.Vanarambaion=US=

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No disrespect at all to our Canadian brethren, but I'm with 1SG on this one. Nothing to apologize for here. Another one bites the dust.

 

Also Canada has more confirmed kills of high-ranking Al Qaeda members than any other country, including the US. You won't find a single US service member complaining about Canadian sniping.

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Guest RET.1SG.Draven=US=
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No disrespect at all to our Canadian brethren, but I'm with 1SG on this one. Nothing to apologize for here. Another one bites the dust.

 

Also Canada has more confirmed kills of high-ranking Al Qaeda members than any other country, including the US. You won't find a single US service member complaining about Canadian sniping.

I agree with everything stated above. Not ONE US Service Member (who has served with our Northern brothers in arms) will EVER complain about their sniping ability. Those boys from Canada will take the wings off a fly from a 1000 meters! :)

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Guest Jusarious

I have not been in the service at all. Gotta state that. I have worked with my colleagues in DND several times and they are great people. Canadians value the members of the armed forces differently than our american brothers and sisters but still with reverence and gratitude.

 

What is being argued by scholars and politicians is the rules of engagement in Afghanistan and is this kind of accolade one that the Canadian people want to be associated. There are a great deal of differing opinions up here on that point of order. Personally, and without disrespect, it was a great shot, however this is not a shot that would warrant much more than a passing pat on the back by other service members. We (Canadians) are not at war in Afghanistan at the moment, we are supposed to be helping the people rebuild and retrain to allow them to live on their own without threat of the Taliban coming in to take over. What happens on the ground is likely to be different than the flowering (poppy in this case) picture our politicians paint for us. There is likely all sorts of shit on the ground we are not aware of.

 

My point here is to say that we are very different up here when it comes to military actions. Peace keeping is more important than using weapons to the citizens of Canada. And we like it that way.

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Guest RET.1SG.Draven=US=

Again, this was not in Afghanistan, this was in Iraq. The Rules of Engagement are different there. I have personally been there twice and have experienced the fog of war. As an American Servicemember, I would buy this man a beer if I saw him in person. He would not have taken the shot if it had not been for intelligence stating this target was a threat. It's time we take the fight TO the enemy, less they bring it to Canada or the United States. Do we need another act of violence (or terrorism, call it what you want) for the US or Canada to wake up and admit we are still at war? If your country has boots on the ground in a foreign country where the enemy wants to kill them, then I assure you, THEY are at war. This is not a Canadian belief, A1C, this is all over your neighbors to the South, too. It bothers me that not enough media attention is covering the ongoing war in the Stan and the continuing and growing threat of ISIS in Iraq (and other countries). And since Canada and the UK vowed to stay with us through the end of Operation Enduring Freedom (the War in Afghanistan), I would have to argue that Canada is most certainly still at war with Afghanistan, whether your government or media or people admit it or not.

 

I say all of this out of respect for you, your branch and your rank, A1C. If any comment offended you during this conversation, please allow me to apologize.

 

That is all. :)

 

1SG.Draven

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Guest CPT.Vanarambaion=US=

Ok, so I did some research on this. Couldn't find much on this controversy, but I did find one article - https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/23/mulcair-raises-concerns-about-canadian-sniper-story.html and the letter to the PM - http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3873400-Mulcair-to-Prime-Minister-on-Role-of-CF-in-Iraq.html#document/p1

 

It looks like this is less of a ROE issue, and more of a political football. Let me explain:

 

Rules of Engagement are the left and right limits of what a particular unit or servicemember can do while in a combat environment. However, ROE does not take into account all of the possible actions that can be taken. No ROE can restrict any human being's right to self defense. Even the Geneva Conventions recognize that right. So, if the sniper was taking fire - direct or indirect - from a particular location, he is well within his right to return fire. This would not require a change in the mission, or approval from higher authority, or anything else. This is an inalienable right to self-defense. There are also other rights that can be affected by ROE. Such rights as the right to self-defense of national interests, defense of others, and defense of objects and locations can be written into the ROE, and often are. These would not require higher approval or a change in the mission to allow the sniper to engage. Only in an offensive scenario - search and destroy, hunt and eliminate, etc - would approval from higher authority and change of mission come into play. That being said, if an ROE restricts servicemembers' ability to defend their base (defense of locations, objects), they're not much use as soldiers. So no ROE wipes out those abilities either. Canada is present in Iraq on an advise and assist mission. Assisting sometimes means going outside the wire to show the 'students' how to apply all the stuff on which you've been advising them.

 

But that's not what the NDP is asking of the government. Either that comes from a lack of understanding as to the scope of the mission, which must always include some eventualities for defense of self, others, and objects, or it is meant to paint the government into the corner by either denying what is being held out to be a fact by the NDP (that there are combat operations in the Middle East), or by confirming what they have so far refused to admit (the same). It's a goofy political move that appears to be aimed at some sort of move prior to the October NDP elections.

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Guest RET.1SG.Draven=US=

Well said, SN. What this has also done is alert more Canadians that they do have troops on the ground (for those that didn't know or refused to believe it) in the Middle East. I personally worked with Canadians in Iraq (I remember their uniforms with their flag on their uniform) and most of them acted as advisors to American or Coalition troops. Amazing men to work with and Canada should be proud of those men and women. These "advisors" in Iraq are just that, advising the Iraqi military on the Coriolis Effect or Force ;)

 

I had no earthly idea there was this much controversy over this shot, whether it should have been taken or not, and the denial of Canadian troops engaged in Combat Operations in the Middle East. A1C, I would be personally upset if my government or media entities were in fact informing your people and countrymen that they were "not at war with Afghanistan". This is a slippery slope - try telling that to the men and women on the ground taking fire and in danger. It would feel like my country turned their collective backs on me and it would hurt.

 

Not to argue with anyone, but I have even in Iraq and know Servicemembers currently in the Stan. And they can confirm Canadian troops on the ground in these locations (acting more as advisors, but still in direct danger and serving in a Combat zone).

 

So your country and government may not officially be at war with Afghanistan, but you do in fact have troops serving there.

 

God Bless each and every one of them.

 

1SG.Draven

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Guest Jusarious

 

 

I say all of this out of respect for you, your branch and your rank, A1C. If any comment offended you during this conversation, please allow me to apologize.

Don't worry Draven, I am not insulted. I really do not have an opinion on the subject nor do I get upset. How I act in TS is how I act in life. Obnoxious but without malice. I know this is a formal forum, but I do appreciate dropping my rank and talking as human beings on subjects like this. Ranks muddy the waters.

 

I have not read past the above quote yet, nor do I remember what I wrote before. I believe it is hard for a civilian to understand what war looks like. As a civilian, I find UN Peace Keeping to be preferable to fighting. I like the idea of being the best human being that I can possibly be and setting that as an example for other to follow. Alas, I have no idea what that would look like. Perhaps the barrel of a gun is the best way to save humanity from itself, my personal wish is that there is another way.

 

If another creature looks upon our planet, will they see a fun loving people or a society bent on destroying itself. I don't know. I would hope that the human race could one day unite and turn our gaze to the stars as the next challenge for our people.

 

I apologize if I ramble. Bit tired today.

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Guest RET.1SG.Draven=US=

Well said, A1C.

 

War does not determine who is right, only who is left... I only did what I did because I was following orders. But you're right, some things can only be solved with conversions in high velocity.

 

1SG.Draven

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